Require info on surrounds

[hififan]

Greetings to all

I want to know what type of surround Altec originally had on 604B, 604C, 416, 515B and 603. To be more specific, was it paper edge accordion, cloth edge accordion or any other type.

Also, which of these had the bakelite spiders?

Regards,

[Phil-G]

they use paper accordians, but mostly you have to replace the entire cone assembly. unless you can do a simple fix. but most of us just send them in for factory repair. you also should keep resale value in mind. i may be wrong.

[bowtie427ss]

604B used a one piece paper cone and hinge assembly. Every 416 uses an accordion cloth hinge, 515B and beyond use an accordion cloth hinge, 604C and beyond use an accordion hinge. 603 would have a paper hinge, pretty sure early ones will be dry while later versions were doped.

All of the "accordion" hinges are cloth. They MUST be doped to make them airtight.

The paper hinges are 1 or 2 small rolls, about as much as you could hope to squeeze out of the cone material. Some paper hinges were doped making them a bit more difficult to discern at a glance or distance.

The one oddball situation would be 413's and early 411's which used a single roll, doped, large, cloth hinge. 413 would be discontinued and later 411's would get a foam roll hinge.

I don't know of any "Bakelite spiders", that is mis-information. Altec made knobs and duplex horns from Bakelite, however.

515, 604, 604B, early 603, and 803A AFAIK, all used a phenolic resin damper(spider). Not a hard and fast rule, but generally an Altec with a paper hinge had a phenolic damper. I "think" some of the early bi-flex drivers also used a phenolic damper, but don't quote me on that.

EDIT: I really wanted to be able to make a simple statement to the effect of "if it had a two piece basket/split rim, then it had a one piece paper cone and hinge assembly with a phenolic spider"

But, i have learned that with Altec there are exceptions to almost every rule, and you have to be very careful about making blanket statements about it.

[hififan]

Thanks Bowtie for the very comprehensive reply.

I meant phenolic when I said Bakelite, just did some online search and learnt that Bakelite is a brand name while phenolic resin is the correct material name.

Regards,

[bowtie427ss]

Just my own personal spin on Bakelite. Historically, i have found pieces and parts which are molded to final shape to be the common reference for Bakelite. Whereas parts that are cut or die stamped from sheet stock are more commonly referred to as "phenolic". Perhaps it's just my particular geographic area where the job market has largely been in the aerospace industry, and i am likely biased to a regional interpretation established by a large corporation or two.

[GM]

Right, Bakelite is the precursor of modern molded structural plastics whereas phenolic is layers of impregnated paper or cloth of various types bonded together at high pressure, temperature. You want 'nasty'; the latter's decades old manufacturing plant I visited back in the '60s, which of course predated EPA, etc., was truly a horrible working environment.

GM

[Altec Best]

604B used a one piece paper cone and hinge assembly. Every 416 uses an accordion cloth hinge, 515B and beyond use an accordion cloth hinge, 604C and beyond use an accordion hinge. 603 would have a paper hinge, pretty sure early ones will be dry while later versions were doped.

All of the "accordion" hinges are cloth. They MUST be doped to make them airtight.

The paper hinges are 1 or 2 small rolls, about as much as you could hope to squeeze out of the cone material. Some paper hinges were doped making them a bit more difficult to discern at a glance or distance.

The one oddball situation would be 413's and early 411's which used a single roll, doped, large, cloth hinge. 413 would be discontinued and later 411's would get a foam roll hinge.

I don't know of any "Bakelite spiders", that is mis-information. Altec made knobs and duplex horns from Bakelite, however.

515, 604, 604B, early 603, and 803A AFAIK, all used a phenolic resin damper(spider). Not a hard and fast rule, but generally an Altec with a paper hinge had a phenolic damper. I "think" some of the early bi-flex drivers also used a phenolic damper, but don't quote me on that.

EDIT: I really wanted to be able to make a simple statement to the effect of "if it had a two piece basket/split rim, then it had a one piece paper cone and hinge assembly with a phenolic spider"

But, i have learned that with Altec there are exceptions to almost every rule, and you have to be very careful about making blanket statements about it.

And right on point as usual !!

[bowtie427ss]

As bowtie correctly said, there are always exceptions. I've got pictures of doped paper hinge surrounds on 604Cs and a 604D, but also cloth accordion on a 604C, which probably was a recone. Also, this may have been Altec labelling 604s in green baskets 604C then after dropping the 604 for the 605A going 'oh wait, we have a few left, studios hate the 605, then lets get those 604s back out and call them 604Ds'.

These popped up in a search.

Note that the cone number doesn't jive with what we'd expect to see in there.

Alec 64D 15 inch Coaxial Loudspeakers

[magnarc]

I remember some discussion on here about those 6 digit numbers, seem to recall it was for a 604c. Forget the outcome though